My Emotional Journey Through Virtual DEATH

Where shall I start… after almost two years

The only thing I can say is: I was virtually DEAD… or to be more precise I was KILLED

So many of you may wonder what I’m talking about…

Let’s put it in words like this …

I believe that there are three kinds of end to our Virtual Lives:

Attempting Suicide: that’s when you intentionally decide to die; giving end to your life with your own fair hands.

Death: this one is slow; it comes over the years… you live either a happy, productive life or lazy miserable one and sooner or later, life takes you by surprise. That’s when you realizing after a while, there might be more important lives that the one you’re living.

Being Killed: When someone or something takes away your RIGHT to live your life.

Out of the three, being killed is the worst…

WHY? Because you have the will, the enthusiasm, the courage to live your life at its best but that right is being taken from you and there is not much you can do about it. Weird … isn’t it?

In my case, I moved physically to a place where Second Life wasn’t allowed. I used every “ANTI-whatever” you can imagine. I would’ve been happy with even being “Virtually Disabled”. But I had no chance…

The hardest part was to be away from friends; those who I shared my life in and out of the world; those who I nagged to about very little things and those who were standing next to me when I was down.

I managed to search few of them and able to make a contact. I would’ve never imagined that I would NEED to talk to someone who lives on the other side of this physical world.

But now it’s all history…

I still standing … with my friends next to me … and head held high

I’m ALIVE…. More than ever

Diaries of Viki Silvansky – Planning and conducting a workshop, February 22, 2009

m131

Dear Diary
Another interesting thing happened in my life today and that was my first ever official workshop.
As a part of my MUVEnation activities, I had to design a workshop and manage everything else around it…snapshot_0061
For me choosing the topic was not that hard as I had some ideas in my mind…
I had a very good feedback on my hypnotee so I though I can teach everyone else to make one.
The planning and preparing took quite a time specially considering my virtual disabilities (not having WIKI) but I managed to finish everything a day before with the help of my amazing friends (specially Anna).
I build my own platform, wrote my workshop materials, create an evaluation form, take photos of my step by step creations and putting them as slide show.
Everything was ready and at 1:00pm people start to arrive at my skybox…
It was a great feeling… everything was going so smooth that I was wondering is this for real?snapshot_0101
It didn’t take much until I make a disaster… not exactly a disaster but something wrong and funny…
I deleted my own platform ;)) Imagine that…
Why may ask how that happened… and why that funny…
Story started days back when I attended Cvetka’s workshop. Someone mistakable deleted her platform which created a bit of unwanted break. Seeing and knowing that, I decided to lock my platform to prevent that… and I did…
After the first session of the workshop, i gave a short break to everyone else and in the mean time i decided to turn back the wings left from other participants. Now you can imagine what happened next..
I clicked and choose delete…
Got a message telling me “the object is locked, are you sure you want to delete it?”
And my answer was “YES”snapshot_012
The next second I was watching myself falling down from 400m above the ground and laughing out loud as I did such a mistake…
Anyway… as we were in the break and everyone else was sited nothing serious happened and I was back on track after 2 min with a new platform.
But all that though me something… it’s better to have your feet on the ground 😉
Most important thing was how my brain fooled me… thinking that I have locked the platform and nothing will happen to it make me be so sure about deleting even though I saw the message…
Other than that most of things were just great…
Participants were my best friends who I always enjoy working with them and we all managed to do a great job.
I guess everyone learned a lot… and that includes me too…
I have realized some many new things….snapshot_015
For example, as part of event discretion I mentioned that all levels (newbies, experts) are welcome and I really included all the instructions necessary for every level…
But during the workshop I realized that is not they day to do it because those participants who were experts might get board of my detailed instruction that I was giving newbies and the pluses within the workshop. On the other hand, newbies are ever feeling worse, getting anxious that everyone is building quickly and they don’t even know how to drag an object.
After all everything went on and we ended up with 5 wing trees for session one and 4 flexi wing trees for session two…
The results were amazing, and I am really happy about them.
It was another day in SL to remember 😉

Analysing Hands-on Workshops Resource

This blog is about how different workshops in SL are conducted and how each of them is addressing learning. To realize the difference between different workshops, I decided to attend more than two workshops to get the main points in conducting workshops in different areas related to SL.snapshot_004

The list of workshops where followings;

  1. Basic SL building workshop (Tutor: Edwin Alter)
  2. SL land owning workshop (Tutor: Protomas Ludwig)
  3. Role-playing workshop (Tutor: Tammy Connolly)

Each one has its own way of addressing the main points and conducting the workshop. The difference where minimal in some stages but there was a visible difference related to the way in which the classroom was designed.

The first workshop was places somewhere high in the sky, flat open space covered with same rectangle tiles which created an invisible boundary for each participant. There were pillows placed over the tiles both for participants and tutor, to manage the place for building the objects without interrupting other participants.

For the second workshop, which was related to SL lands and mainly was focusing on the SL application, the workshop space was mostly following the structure of the RL classrooms with linked chairs, slide show presenter and tutor standing at the front.

Final workshop was designed completely in different way.  The workshop was being held in a medieval style designed house in an old village. Participants had to sit on the sofa round the room and tutor was standing at the top of the room.

Other than this visible difference within the design of the space, there were other differences in other aspects of the workshops mentioned below:

Planning and preparation:

Workshops were mostly structured and previously prepared.  The course materials were planned previously for the limited class time and tested to fit the participants’ level and the duration of the workshop. There were all free of charge but donation boxes were available in all three places.

Delivery of the instruction:

Workshops were mainly different in this aspect. First workshop was using only notecard and copy/paste of the instructions in the chat channel. For the second workshop, as the learning activity was mainly based on the SL application, the workshop was using slide show presentation to help participants learn how to use the application for buying land. The weak point of the workshop was again this delivery of materials via slides. As there was no notecards involved, the learning activity was only relaying on the classroom itself with no opportunity for later recall of them.

Follow up and evaluation:

 Only in case of last activity, there where formal evaluation linked to a web base questionnaire. Other activities where mainly focused on informal expressions of participants regarding the usefulness of the workshop. In the last workshop, tutor assigned homework for the participants which later she will give the feedback on it.

Activities for recalling and transferring learning

Except the first workshop, others provided web-base links for revision and further resources.  The last workshop gave a long list of web base pages which can help participants in gaining more knowledge about the main points presented in the workshop.

Conclusion:

Each workshop based on its nature, demands different kinds of design and presentation. From my observation workshops can be divided into three main categories, each having their own parameters.

Group one: building and scripting base workshop:

  • Needs open space, good lightning, structure placement of participants
  • Learning materials can be presented in a notecard
  • No need for interactive or scripted objects

Group two: application base workshops:

  • RL classroom design is suitable for this workshop
  • Slide presentation is necessary to help create a visual memory of actions
  • It can be used for any SL related activities such as land ownership, sky and environments controls and etc.
  • It would be better if the materials are available in 2D using pictures other than normal notecard.

Group three: concept base workshops:

  • This is suitable for workshops related to subjects like: role playing, religions, political subjects, and philosophical and psychological classes.
  • Formal or informal places can be suitable for such workshops
  • Workshop is mainly based on transfer of information using SL as only a tool
  • Web base resources are playing an important role
  • They are designed as a serious of workshops instead of single activity.

Followings are the analysis grid of first and last workshops that I attended by Edwin Alter and Tammy Connolly:

Workshop 1: Workshop design: planning and preparationsnapshot_001

Spatial design and layout: How is the virtual physical space for delivering the workshop designed and utilized?

80% emulation of RL and 20% addressing pragmatics of SL environment: the environment was combination of different elements, class was classes on the top of very SL like building while the classroom itself was very realistically designed; simple tiles, no object for distraction. Tiles were about 10*10 and each participant was working a square, so although there were no visible boundaries each participant was feeling some sense of space.

Instructional design: To what extent are the learning objectives, outcomes and goals organized?

Structured: The objective was to help newbie’s to learn how to build basic things and change the texture. The process was completely organized with allocated time for each of the activities. Almost all throughout the workshop the next step was known but there were minor differences on the outcomes of the workshops. The reason for such differences was the chances that tutor gave students to try their own version of things which ended up having various versions of the same sofa.

Organisation of instructions and Discourse: To what extent are the instructions and discourse organized in advance?

90% Pre-prepared and 10% unorganized: most of the workshop was organized in the way to help participants learn how to build objects and modify them by experimenting in building a simple sofa. After finishing that sofa the tutor has the opportunity to create simple things which was quite unexpected and mostly informal.

Physical organisation of learning material:  In what form are the learning materials made available to the participants?

80% structured and 20% unstructured: the tutor was copy/pasting lines of structures on how to build things and change them. However most of the time there were questions raised by participants which would require real time response from the tutor.

Business model: What is the economic model for learner participation?

Free: the class was basically free, there was a donation box but nothing has been mentioned about donation (“like advertising for some donations or things like that”)

Maturity level | Development version: What is the maturity level of the workshop and its lifecycle?

Fully tested: I believe that it was fully tested (maybe by trial and error), because the tutor has long history of teaching beginners how to build in SL.

Workshop implementation: delivery of instructionclass_001

Assessment of prior/required knowledge: Is prior knowledge assessed? If so, how is prior it is assessed?

None: There was nothing needed before attending the class, it started from how to click on the ground and select things from the pie chart.

Pre-prepared activities to met the knowledge requirements: What type of pre-workshop activities has been planned to meet the knowledge requirements?

None: Class started from scratch, explaining how to click on the ground and build things and how to use zoom and POV.

Prior knowledge: How is prior knowledge recalled and connected to the workshop activities?

Systematically recalled and connected: the workshop started with a short overview of things that was necessary for workshop.

Preparation of user interface and viewing controls: To what extent are the instructions for organizing the client user interface and camera controls given?

Combination of both: is some points the camera controls were given in a very detailed way but in some stages, the main goal was to let uses experience things in their own way.

Technical preparation of participants: What technical advice and background information are provided?

No instructions: There were not many instructions as the workshop was in a very basic level but there were some instructions regarding the landmarks and lag.

Conversational flow: How is the conversational flow structured between tutor and learners?

Ordered and controlled progressively by behavioral rules, interaction policies, textual codes, scripted objects and communication tools

Communication dynamics: What are the dominant communication dynamics during the workshop?

Tutor Learner

Movement of learners and teachers: How are the movements of participating avatars in the learning space?

Free: there were no specific sits which would limit the avatars, however, the classroom had big rectangle tiles which created a psychological space.

Presentation of outputs and results: How are the expected outputs and results presented?

Illustrated at varying of stages of development: the object being made at the time was being built at the same time by the tutor.

Delivery of learning material: How are the learning materials given to learners?

Progressively: the tutor was sending the instructions and learning materials on the chat channel by copy pasting the material from a note card. At the end of the class, tutor sends a notecard containing the notes of structured parts of the workshop.

Use of tools to deliver both content Instruction: What tools are used to deliver to content instruction to learners?

Basic SL chat facility: there was no need for any other tools for such basic workshop mostly for beginners.

Use of media to enhance teaching: What types of media are used to enhance/enrich the teaching/learning experience?

Basic use of SL text chat and sense of virtual embodiment

Concurrent learner activity: What type of concurrent learner activity is promoted?

Activity exclusively centered within the 3D world

Personalization of learning: What types of activities are implemented to individualize the learning experience?

Adaptive pathways: although there were structures on how to create things with even details of parameters but the users were able to first do what was asked and then individualize it to create their own person of the sofa.

Pedagogical approach: What are the relevant aspects of the learning and teaching approach?

Directive: the learning process was straight forward with insuring similar level of learning within the participants.

70% Focused on rules and procedures and 30% focused on concept:  the workshop had two different focuses main based on rules and procedures related to how to make a sofa and how to modify simple objects. However, the workshop covered concepts related to how SL application in general can process things specially highlighting some limitation related 3d designs and how to manage them.

60% result oriented and 40% process oriented: most of the learning was focus on how to build something in SL, in this case a sofa. This was focusing on the result which may or may not having the same shape or procedures to create it. However, because the workshop was structured, the process was playing an important rule and tutor was making sure that participants are able to follow them.

Implementation of the workshop: follow up and evaluation

Provision of guidance, support and feedback: How does the tutor provide support and feedback to the learners?

On demand via main or back channels

Monitoring of student progress: In what from does the tutor monitor student progress?

Gathering of informal feedback: this was mainly based on the discussion after the workshop where participants were expressing their experience.

Quality of feedback: What is the nature of the feedback?

Informative

Assessment model: What is the assessment model?

Informal assessment

Implementation of the workshop: recall and transfer of learning

Recapiltulation: In what form is the revision of key concepts and procedures addressed?

None:  however, there where websites and links mentioned which will help participants to recall things that they have learnt in the workshop or even expand their learning.

After session resources: What kinds of resources are made available at the end of the session?

Combination of all: other then getting to know each other and using networking to develop some skill in later stages, other websites and linked has been mentioned to help participants.

After session activities: What type of post workshop activity has been planned?

Nonesnapshot_002

 

Workshop 3: Workshop design: planning and preparation

Spatial design and layout: How is the virtual physical space for delivering the workshop designed and utilized?

40% emulation of RL and 60% addressing pragmatics of SL environment: it was designed to meet the role playing of medieval time. Although there are characters of RL but none of them where presenting the current real life design.

Instructional design: To what extent are the learning objectives, outcomes and goals organized?

Semi-structured: The objective was to help people to learn about role playing in SL, introducing different existing characters, classes and jobs. However, the decisions about choosing the characters and learning about them was up to the participants.

Organisation of instructions and Discourse: To what extent are the instructions and discourse organized in advance?

90% Pre-prepared and 10% unorganized: most of the workshop was organized but after covering each subsection, the tutor was asking whether anyone has any question till that point which was leading to some discussions that might have not been organized.

Physical organisation of learning material:  In what form are the learning materials made available to the participants?

80% structured and 20% unstructured: the tutor was copy/pasting text most of the time, however there were questions raised by participants which would require real time response from the tutor.

Business model: What is the economic model for learner participation?

Free: the class was basically free, there was a donation box but nothing has been mentioned about donation.

Maturity level | Development version: What is the maturity level of the workshop and its lifecycle?

Fully tested: I believe that it was fully tested (maybe by trial and error).

Workshop implementation: delivery of instructionsnapshot_005

Assessment of prior/required knowledge: Is prior knowledge assessed? If so, how is prior it is assessed?

None: There was nothing needed before attending the class.

Pre-prepared activities to met the knowledge requirements: What type of pre-workshop activities has been planned to meet the knowledge requirements?

None: class was considering that participant have normal avatar abilities such as sitting, changing of the profile and cloths, chatting, and dealing with basic scripts.

Prior knowledge: How is prior knowledge recalled and connected to the workshop activities?

Not recalled: the workshop was started like story telling about role-playing activities. Mainly there was no need for even for recalling things. 

Preparation of user interface and viewing controls: To what extent are the instructions for organizing the client user interface and camera controls given?

No instructions: No need for camera control or organizing the client user interface.

Technical preparation of participants: What technical advice and background information are provided?

No instructions: There were not many instructions as the workshop was in a very basic level.

Conversational flow: How is the conversational flow structured between tutor and learners?

Free and improvised: learners were free to ask question and stop the workshop at any point, if it was regarding the workshop.

Communication dynamics: What are the dominant communication dynamics during the workshop?

Tutor Learner and Learner Learner

Movement of learners and teachers: How are the movements of participating avatars in the learning space?

Constrained sit/position for learners and free movement for teacher: although there was nothing mentioned in the case, but I assume that this was the role as the tutor invited us to sit when we just arrived to the class.

Presentation of outputs and results: How are the expected outputs and results presented?

Not presented: there was no need for presentation as the results were only adding to knowledge and not visible as physical objects.

Delivery of learning material: How are the learning materials given to learners?

Progressively: the tutor was sending the instructions and learning materials on the chat channel by copy pasting the material from a note card. At the beginning of the class, tutor asked us to touch an object to get the notecard containing the notes of structured parts of the workshop.

Use of tools to deliver both content Instruction: What tools are used to deliver to content instruction to learners?

Basic SL chat facility: although it would be better is they could use presentation tools.

Use of media to enhance teaching: What types of media are used to enhance/enrich the teaching/learning experience?

Basic use of SL text chat and sense of virtual embodiment

Concurrent learner activity: What type of concurrent learner activity is promoted?

Parallel activity within 2D environment: links where provided to internet resources for background reading and information.

Personalization of learning: What types of activities are implemented to individualize the learning experience?

None: at that stage only information was provided to the learners, and individualization was part of homework for the next week activities.

Pedagogical approach: What are the relevant aspects of the learning and teaching approach?

Directive: the learning process was straight forward with providing information and links to what participants need to know.

Focused on concept: the main goal was to teach everyone information about the concepts of role playing.

Result oriented: without considering the process, the main reason was to assure that participants can play role and choose their characters as the results of the workshop. 

Implementation of the workshop: follow up and evaluation

Provision of guidance, support and feedback: How does the tutor provide support and feedback to the learners?

On demand via main or back channels

Monitoring of student progress: In what from does the tutor monitor student progress?

50% gathering of informal feedback and 50% structured monitoring: tutor was asking questions making sure that the participants understood the points. Moreover, the tutor assigned homework for next week activities which she will give a feedback on it.

Quality of feedback: What is the nature of the feedback? snapshot_006

Formative

Assessment model: What is the assessment model?

Informal and Formal assessment: depending on the situation

Implementation of the workshop: recall and transfer of learning

Recapiltulation: In what form is the revision of key concepts and procedures addressed?

Systematic: by referring to the links provided in teaching materials.

After session resources: What kinds of resources are made available at the end of the session?

Combination of all: other then getting to know each other and using networking to develop some skill in later stages, other websites and linked has been mentioned to help participants.

After session activities: What type of post workshop activity has been planned?

Individual activity: a homework to creating profile related to knowledge gained in the workshop for next week class.

I Am VIRTUALLY DISABLED

wheel01I don’t know where to start…

There are some many things I want to share at the moment about my Second Life.

So many of you may realize my sudden disappearance from SL and ask a simple question WHY?…

The reason can be explained in 2 words:

REAL LIFE

A while ago everything was just amazing in SL at least for me with my lovely MUVEnation family and great friends everywhere in SL. I was working in Surrey Island, studying in MUVEnation, having conferences in Idaho and showing off in Emerge runway.

But all these things went down with a simple problem: “slow internet speed”.

Actually everything wasn’t that simple. I had to physically move within 3 counties, move my house twice, and face the fact that where I am standing right now there is not internet higher than 512 which is not even reliable…

It’s just funny, how a simple thing can destroy whatever you work for it so hard, isn’t it….

Three days ago, for a second I felt 0.01% of what disable people feel in their everyday life when I couldn’t move myself because of the low internet connection. It was awful.

 That day I had a meeting with StevenW and Paz, so that they could help me catch up with whatever I was missing. I was standing there, willing to move, to talk, to fly and most of all to CREATE but I could not even walk, my texts were not being shown in the local chat and everything was gray. I was trapped in my own virtual body and real mind.

The feeling was so real that I was CRYING in Real Life, realizing that my brain is disconnected from my SL body…. no matter what I wish to do, they will just stays in my brain, and my body and environment is not functioning based on my commands.

So I can loudly announce that:   I AM VIRTUALLY DISABLED

I created this term to describe my current situation. It is important to mention here, I person in SL is either all right or has combination of disabilities that puts too many emotional pressures on the person. When someone is visually disabled he/she is unable to see things in the right way, unable to walk and fly properly, unable to communicate with others. But for me none of them is as bad as being unable to create, to rez objects, write scripts to make something amazing.

Not many people might exactly feel what I am feeling now and many more will consider it as stupid expression. But, I’m sure those of you that have been around long enough to have your own Virtual Identity can understand me and feel my frustrations and emotions.

Considering it bad luck, destiny or whatever; this is a situation which I have to deal with for a while and hopefully it will not cost me my MUVEnation course. But, what I learnt from it is the new concept of “being virtually disabled” which I would never be able to find it otherwise.

The Hypnotree

Basically it happened…3130393820_3fe3eae693_o

We were going to have MUVEnation fashion show (“MUVEshow as I call it”), so I bought a dress designed by Nicky Ree which was absolutely fantastic. In matter of seconds I fell in love with its wonderful texture and for a while that was all I could think about. After some days I realized that the dress is modifiable, meaning that I can make something out of the pieces of the dress but I would not have the textures that I loved so much….

I thought to myself “why not?, I have already worn that dress, so better to create something new out of it” (recycling J). But even thinking what will be possible to make with such texture was hard….

In the following week, for MUVEnation, I saw a highlight of an in-world session to make trees for near future and that was the trigger for me to make a tree out of the pieces of cloths that I had.

So I started delinking the dress into pieces and change their shape to get the best look of the textures as I could not access the texture itself. Anyway, after long long hours of struggling with both transparent and flexible objects I ended up creating my first ever tree….

I have to admit I am really PROUD of myself…..

I put one in MUVEnation Island but somehow tree was not in harmony with the environment, so I though I can make something for that… went back to Surrey Island and made what I called it as “Fantasy Cube” in dark navy blue colour and that was the time that I really felt everything is all right.

Then it was time to find a name for the tree…. my first feeling about the texture was “water lily” to me and I was thinking to name it like that but then I thought my tree is not looking like a Lotus, so why name it that and next minute I myself building one. After 2 hours wondering how to make best of features, I have my water lilies which could serve even as seats to complete the glory of the fantasy Cube.waterelily

Now everything was getting together, the tree, its cube, water lily seats, ghost lights, but still something missing to make this place prefect…. MUSIC…. as I didn’t have the mode to deal with that one I just bought some of the ready in-world and add them to the combination of the items in fantasy cube.

For a day or two that place was only a personal experience to me until friends are started commenting about it J I was really thrilled when people were telling me that “we come to that place to distress ourselves” and “it makes me feel relaxed and happy”. Other than the comments, design of this tree brought me the Title of “Virtaul Designer”; something that I was dreaming about it for a long time J

However, days passed and the tree was only “the tree” for me and others until, my friend Cvetta Nacht put the picture of the pink version of the tree writing the following lines:

“I’m obviously obsessed with this tree…. so much so that I found myself floating among the layers leaves of its fuchsia version. “3130394362_e734dede6f_o

And that was the time when i came up  with the idea of “hypnosis” and been conformed by Cvetta as:

                                 “The Hypntree”

As its put people in a position that they find themselves even not believing the feeling that a simple tree can create within them 🙂

So now the tree has a name and a home: you can visit “the hypnotree” and “fantasy cube” in Surrey Island

Not Possible in Second Life

not

 

I am sure does of you who have some experience in building or scripting have long list of things that is impossible in Second Life.

I usually face such problems, but sometimes I try to convince myself that is my lack of knowledge in SL and not the fact that it is impossible to do it.

You may ask: “what happened that you start nagging again?”

To be honest, you will see me nagging a lot but the reason that this time I’m nagging about this particulate thing is the incident I faced two days ago with I was trying to build a very simple stupid thing (the one that you can see in the picture).

Two days ago, I had this vision of merry-go-round and how it would be possible to build such a thing. As I had no time for playing around as I usually do, I decided to build a version of it that can be used as an advertising kind of stand in the middle of my newly built place (actually modification from another building).

First I broke down the steps; (1) building the base which should rotate (2) cover of the book we need to advertise (3) sticks to link books to the base. There was no need for the sticks to be there but as long as i wanted to create something which would resemble to the RL object, I tried to make it realistic. After building the whole thing it was time to play with some of the variable to make my objects flexible so that they would move outward as the base starts to rotate, just like merry-go-around.

The first thing came to my mind was to play with gravity and wind and tension and the rest of the parameters but that was where I realized there is a problem and this is it:

“there is no way you can have you objects linked with the same flex center so that one will follow the other”

By this I mean, the books that I was trying to link to the flexi stick will not be linked to the end of the sticks as it would be in merry-go-round. I have tried almost everything that i would thing it might work, like putting both as flexi prims, only put one and the change the other one to see how it works but i have to tell u this, i didn’t find any way to give the same visual expression that i really want.

I’m still not sure whether there is any way to do it or not, but it there is please let me know. But what is related to that book on the stick thing…. I’m ganna keep it for a while and see what will happen.

And until finding the solution for that, this effect is “not possible in Second Life” for me.

Is this Madness or what???? No Comment

 

This text is copy of the local chat between me and the Host of the place…. I am deleting the name of the person to not effect her reputation.

Location: Pondessa

Reason: analyzing orientation islands design…

3114250705_77f683c646_o

[18:52]  TheHost: hello Viki

[18:53]  Viki Silvansky: hi

 [18:53]  TheHost: ah, you arent new here?

[18:53]  Viki Silvansky: new in Sl?

[18:53]  TheHost: yes

[18:53]  Viki Silvansky: no im not

[18:54]  Viki Silvansky: is this your place?

[18:54]  TheHost: well, this is an orientation island for newbies ok

[18:54]  Viki Silvansky: i know

[18:54]  TheHost: would you like to join our group so you can set your home to Pondi?

[18:54]  Viki Silvansky: no thanx

[18:54]  Viki Silvansky: i was looking to some good design of orientation islands, thats y im visiting different places and observe how they done it

[18:55]  TheHost: oh, you should ask the owner permission first Viki

[18:55]  Viki Silvansky: if observing?

[18:55]  TheHost: yes, these are private islands owned by a company

[18:56]  TheHost: permission is always a good idea

[18:56]  Viki Silvansky: as the island is open for public i guess i am allowed to come and have a look around….

[18:57]  TheHost: that is true, but we have to be careful, and we prefer that only newbies are here ok

[18:57]  Viki Silvansky: yes but if someone wants to do something they can always come with newbies avatar, creating new account only takes 5 min

[18:58]  TheHost: thats true also, unfortunately

[18:58]  Viki Silvansky: if u have this rule its ok for me….

[18:58]  TheHost: 🙂

[18:58]  Viki Silvansky: but this is not logical, to ask ppl to leave the island with out any reason

[18:59]  TheHost: of having this only for newbies?

[18:59]  Viki Silvansky: if thats the rule, u should have a sign

[18:59]  TheHost: the reason is that these orientation islands are set up for newbies, not for older avies ok

[19:00]  TheHost: and, we are here to inform 🙂

[19:02]  Viki Silvansky: byeee

[19:02]  TheHost: byee